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Searching your Ancestors in Italy - Franz Frühstück

karl1976 - 27 Ott 2018 - 16:59
Oggetto: Franz Frühstück
I am turning to you I'm desperate help.
I have been helping my Grandmother Margaretha Frühstück trace her family tree. She was born in Barental on Jul 20th 1927 and is still with us. Her father was Jakob Frühstück born in 1889. His father is Franz Frühstück and we are trying to find any information about him and further back. We believe he was born mid 1800s and probably Saifnitz. We believe he married Agnes Mesnik. We also believe his mother name was possibly Anna. Below I have copied a translation of my grandmothers birth certificate which is in German and English. The translation is not great) I am so desperate to find any information. I really hope you can advise or help. My Grandmother is desperate to find information. If you can help with anything we would be most grateful.

Here is the translation:

Margaretha, ehelich geboren am 20. Juli 1927 um 14.00 Uhr in Bärental 7.
Vater: Jakob Frühstück, Schuhmacher zu Klagenfurt, geboren zu Saifnitz , Italien, zuständig zu Klagenfurt, ehelicher Sohn des Franz Frühstück und der Agnes, geborene Mesnik, alle katholischer Religion (geboren 25. Juli 1889).
Mutter: Barbara, geborene Struger, dessen Ehegattin, hier geborene uneheliche Tochter der Theresia Struger, Einwohnerin in Bärental, beide katholischer Religion (geboren 5. Oktober 1900).
Trauung der Eltern: 14. Februar 1922 in Saifnitz, Italien
Paten: Anna Struger, Bärental; Johann Schlugowitz, Kellermeister in Klagenfurt; vertreten durch: Katharina Fortin, Keuschlersgattin in Bärental
Nachtrag: gefirmt am 13. Mai 1940 in Klagenfurt von Bischof Dr. Andreas Rohracher
(Quelle: Pfarre Bärental, Geburtsbuch, tom. II, fol. 131)

Margaretha, born on July 20, 1927 at 2:00 pm in Bärental 7.
Father: Jakob Frühstück, shoemaker at Klagenfurt, born in Saifnitz, Italy, in charge of Klagenfurt, married son of Franz Frühstück and Agnes, born Mesnik, all Catholic religion (born 25 July 1889).
Mother: Barbara, nee Struger, whose spouse, here born illegitimate daughter of Theresia Struger, resident of Bärental, both Catholic religion (born October 5, 1900).
Wedding ceremony: February 14, 1922 in Saifnitz, Italy
Godparents: Anna Struger, Bärental; Johann Schlugowitz, cellar master in Klagenfurt; represented by: Katharina Fortin, Keuschlers wife in Bärental
Addendum: confirmed on May 13, 1940 in Klagenfurt by Bishop Dr. Andreas Rohracher
(Source: Parish Bärental, birth book, tom II, fol. 131)

Den Geburtseintrag der Mutter Barbara Struger finden Sie hier im Internet:
The birth entry of the mother Barbara Struger can be found here on the Internet:
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Barbara, unehelich geboren am 5. Oktober 1900 in Bärental 17.
Vater: kein Eintrag
Mutter: Theresia Struger, Einwohnerin beim vulgo Juriz im Bärental, hier gebürtig, des Lorenz Struger, vulgo Plausch, Keuschler im Bärental, später vulgo Lex in Strugarn, und seiner Ehegattin Katharina, geborene Branz, eheliche Tochter, alle katholischer Religion.
Paten: Anna Struger, Magd an der Hube in der Pfarre Windisch-Bleiberg; Andreas Pegrin, Pächter der Plauz-Hube im Bärental.
(Quelle: Pfarre Bärental, Geburtsbuch, tom II, pag 69)

Barbara, illegitimate born on 5 October 1900 in Bärental 17.
Father: no entry
Mother: Theresia Struger, resident of the vulgar Juriz in the Bärental, here native, of the Lorenz Struger, vulgo Plausch, Keuschler in the Bärental, later vulgo Lex in Strugarn, and his spouse Katharina, nee Branz, married daughter, all Catholic religion.
Godparents: Anna Struger, maid at the Hube in the parish of Windisch-Bleiberg; Andreas Pegrin, tenant of the Plauz-Hube in the Bärental.
(Source: Parish Bärental, birth book, tom II, pag 69)

Den Geburtseintrag des Vaters Jakob Fruhstuk findet sich bei uns als Abschrift:
The birth entry of the father Jakob Fruhstuk can be found in our copy:
Jakob, ehelich geboren am 24. Juli 1889 in Saifnitz 172.
Vater: Franz Fruhstuk, vulgo Necelj (= Hausname), Sohn der Anna Fruhstuk, hier geboren, katholisch.
Mutter: Agnes, geborene Mesnik, eheliche Tochter des Blasius Mesnik, vulgo Koc in Uggowitz, und der Magdalena, geborene Jank, katholisch.
Paten: Lukas Scheriau, Gastwirt; Margareth Kravina, Besitzersweib.
(Quelle: Abschrift des Geburtsbuches der Pfarre Saifnitz 1889).

Jakob, born in July 1889 in Saifnitz 172.
Father: Franz Fruhstuk, commonly Necelj (= name of the house), son of Anna Fruhstuk, born here, Catholic.
Mother: Agnes, born Mesnik, married daughter of Blasius Mesnik, commonly Koc in Uggowitz, and the Magdalena, née Jank, Catholic.
Godparents: Lukas Scheriau, innkeeper; Margareth Kravina, owner's wife.
(Source: Copy of the birth book of the parish Saifnitz 1889).

I am so desperate.

Regards

Karl Lawrence.
piacentino - 27 Ott 2018 - 17:55
Oggetto:
Did you write to the comune of Tarvisio? Saifnitz in Italian is Camporosso, a fraction of the comune of Tarvisio You must apply for the Historical Family Certificate of Mr Franz Frühstück, married to Agnese Mesnik, residents in Camporosso the year 1889, the birth year of Jakob Frühstück.
SERVIZIO DEMOGRAFICO ED ELETTORALE

Sede del Servizio: Municipio via Roma 3 Piano Terra corridoio a destra.





ORARIO DI APERTURA AL PUBBLICO





DIRIGENTE dell'Area Amministrativa e Responsabile del Servizio Demografico ed Elettorale

dr. Doriguzzi Evaristo e-mail:
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telefono 0428 2980 interno 126


Responsabile del Procedimento:



Neri Rosmaria (categoria D4)

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telefono 0428 2980 interno 107



Collaboratori:

Ufficio Demografico - Ufficio Elettorale



Kverk Roberto (categoria C4)

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telefono 0428 2980 interno 107



Filaferro Mariapia (categoria B4)
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telefono 0428 2980 interno 107
karl1976 - 28 Ott 2018 - 12:39
Oggetto:
Hi,

What would be the best way to contact.

Regards
vlepore47 - 28 Ott 2018 - 15:12
Oggetto:
e-mail:
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piacentino - 28 Ott 2018 - 15:22
Oggetto:
You must to write to
Neri Rosmaria

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you must apply for the Certificato Storico della Famiglia di Franz Frühstück married to Agnese Mesnik and residents of the fraction of Camporosso (Saifnitz) where was born on July 24, 1889 Jacob Frühstück, son of both. For this certificate you have to pay a small amount of euros for each member of the family registered You must send a copy of your identity document and emphasize your need to have information about your g.g.grandfather
Franz, such as date and place of birth, names of parents and children and any other that they have available The comune will inform you how much you must pay for the certificate
For to show that your ancestors lived there you can send on file the original document that you have where the birth of Jacob is written in
You must to write to the DIRIGENTE dell'Area Amministrativa e Responsabile del Servizio Demografico ed Elettorale

dr. Doriguzzi Evaristo e-mail:
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too
Best regards
piacentino - 28 Ott 2018 - 16:26
Oggetto:
You must ho write them in italian language
It you have copy of these documents:
1)Margaretha, ehelich geboren am 20. Juli 1927 um 14.00 Uhr in Bärental 7.
Vater: Jakob Frühstück, Schuhmacher zu Klagenfurt, geboren zu Saifnitz , Italien, zuständig zu Klagenfurt, ehelicher Sohn des Franz Frühstück und der Agnes, geborene Mesnik, alle katholischer Religion (geboren 25. Juli 1889).
Mutter: Barbara, geborene Struger, dessen Ehegattin, hier geborene uneheliche Tochter der Theresia Struger, Einwohnerin in Bärental, beide katholischer Religion (geboren 5. Oktober 1900).
Trauung der Eltern: 14. Februar 1922 in Saifnitz, Italien
Paten: Anna Struger, Bärental; Johann Schlugowitz, Kellermeister in Klagenfurt; vertreten durch: Katharina Fortin, Keuschlersgattin in Bärental
Nachtrag: gefirmt am 13. Mai 1940 in Klagenfurt von Bischof Dr. Andreas Rohracher
(Quelle: Pfarre Bärental, Geburtsbuch, tom. II, fol. 131)
2)Jakob, ehelich geboren am 24. Juli 1889 in Saifnitz 172.
Vater: Franz Fruhstuk, vulgo Necelj (= Hausname), Sohn der Anna Fruhstuk, hier geboren, katholisch.
Mutter: Agnes, geborene Mesnik, eheliche Tochter des Blasius Mesnik, vulgo Koc in Uggowitz, und der Magdalena, geborene Jank, katholisch.
Paten: Lukas Scheriau, Gastwirt; Margareth Kravina, Besitzersweib.
(Quelle: Abschrift des Geburtsbuches der Pfarre Saifnitz 1889).
You must ho send on file these documents in tedesco. Se puoi tradurre in italiano send the traductions too
The number 2 is very important because is from the Parish of Sainfitz(Camporosso)
karl1976 - 28 Ott 2018 - 18:05
Oggetto:
Thank you. I shall have to workout how to do it. I will have to use Google translate.

I appreciate you time.

Karl
karl1976 - 30 Ott 2018 - 20:57
Oggetto:
I sent an email to ask.

No reply yet.
piacentino - 31 Ott 2018 - 00:00
Oggetto:
you must wait a reasonable time for them to respond .. Wait 15 or 30 days. If you wish you can send the message as you wrote it to review it and see if it is well written. If it is not written correctly in Italian, they may not respond.
You must also send a copy of your identity document
karl1976 - 04 Nov 2018 - 20:34
Oggetto:
Hi,

This is what I sent.

Mi rivolgo a te, sono un aiuto disperato.
Ho aiutato mia nonna Margaretha Frühstück a tracciare il suo albero genealogico. È nata a Barental il 20 luglio 1927 ed è ancora con noi. Suo padre era Jakob Frühstück nato nel 1889. Suo padre è Franz Frühstück e stiamo cercando di trovare qualche informazione su di lui e più indietro. Crediamo che sia nato a metà del 1800 e probabilmente a Saifnitz. Crediamo che abbia sposato Agnes Mesnik. Crediamo anche che il nome di sua madre fosse forse Anna. Di seguito ho copiato una traduzione del certificato di nascita di mia nonna che è in italiano. La traduzione non è eccezionale) Sono così disperato di trovare qualsiasi informazione. Spero davvero che tu possa consigliare o aiutare. Mia nonna è alla disperata ricerca di informazioni. Se puoi aiutare con qualcosa saremmo molto grati.

Ecco la traduzione:Margaretha, nata il 20 luglio 1927 alle 14:00 in Bärental 7.
Padre: Jakob Frühstück, calzolaio a Klagenfurt, nato a Saifnitz, in Italia, responsabile di Klagenfurt, figlio sposato di Franz Frühstück e Agnes, nato Mesnik, di religione cattolica (nato il 25 luglio 1889).
Mamma: Barbara, nata Struger, la cui consorte, qui nata figlia illegittima di Theresia Struger, residente in Bärental, sia di religione cattolica (nata il 5 ottobre 1900).
Cerimonia nuziale: 14 febbraio 1922 a Saifnitz, in Italia
Godparents: Anna Struger, Bärental; Johann Schlugowitz, maestro di cantina a Klagenfurt; rappresentato da: Katharina Fortin, moglie di Keuschlers in Bärental
Addendum: confermato il 13 maggio 1940 a Klagenfurt dal vescovo Dr. Andreas Rohracher
(Fonte: Parish Bärental, libro di nascita, tom II, fol. 131
Barbara, illegittima, nata il 5 ottobre 1900 a Bärental 17.
Padre: nessuna voce
Madre: Theresia Struger, abitante del volgare Juriz in Bärental, qui nativo, del Lorenz Struger, vulgo Plausch, Keuschler nel Bärental, in seguito vulgo Lex in Strugarn, e la sua consorte Katharina, nata Branz, figlia sposata, tutta religione cattolica .
Godparents: Anna Struger, cameriera dell'Hube nella parrocchia di Windisch-Bleiberg; Andreas Padmala, inquilino del Plauz Hube nella valle dell'orso.
(Fonte: Parish Bear Valley, libro di nascita, tom II, pag 69)
la voce di nascita di suo padre Jakob Fruhstuk si trova in noi come trascrizione:
la voce di nascita del padre Jakob Fruhstuk può essere trovata nella nostra copia:
Jakob, nato il 24 luglio 1889 a Saifnitz, era legittimo
padre: Franz Fruhstuk, vulgo Necelj (nome della casa), figlio di Anna Fruhstuk, nato qui, cattolico.
Mutter: Agnes, geborene Mesnik, eheliche Tochter des Blasius Mesnik, vulgo Koc in Uggowitz, und Magdalena, geborene Jank, katholisch.
Paten: Lukas Scheriau, Gastwirt; Margareth Kravina, Besitzersweib.
(Quelle: Abschrift des Geburtsbuches der Pfarre Saifnitz 1889).

Jakob, nato nel luglio 1889 a Saifnitz 172.
Padre: Franz Fruhstuk, comunemente Necelj (= nome della casa), figlio di Anna Fruhstuk, nata qui, cattolica.
Mamma: Agnes, nata Mesnik, sposata figlia di Blasius Mesnik, comunemente Koc in Uggowitz, e la Magdalena, nata Jank, cattolica.
Godparents: Lukas Scheriau, locandiere; Margareth Kravina, la moglie del proprietario.
(Fonte: copia del libro di nascita della parrocchia di Saifnitz nel 1889).

Sono così disperato.

Saluti

Karl Lawrence.
Spero che la traduzione abbia senso visto che ho dovuto usare google translate. Siamo alla disperata ricerca di informazioni su Franz Frühstück e la sua famiglia.
ery1 - 04 Nov 2018 - 22:44
Oggetto:
Hi Karl,
on Family Search website you can find Parish registers of baptisms, marriages and deaths for Saifnitz, Kärnten, Austria (later Žabnice, Yugoslavia, now Camporosso in Valcanale, Udine, Italy).

With a free account you can search for Franz Frühstück's baptism (Taufen), this collection contains church records from 1784 up to 1942 but has no indexes:
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Regards,
Erica
ery1 - 04 Nov 2018 - 23:31
Oggetto:
About Franz I've found this info on Family Search:

"Franz Frühstück owner of the house n. 172 an illegitimate son of Ana Frühstück, born in Udine, of Catholic religion".
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Maybe you could find his birth in Udine, so I suggest you to contact Udine Diocesan Archives at:
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or
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Erica
karl1976 - 05 Nov 2018 - 10:54
Oggetto:
Thanks for all the info
karl1976 - 05 Nov 2018 - 11:27
Oggetto:
This is so difficult.
karl1976 - 06 Nov 2018 - 17:05
Oggetto:
Erica,

I am unable to find n. 172 in that document.
vlepore47 - 06 Nov 2018 - 17:17
Oggetto:
See image 454, at the link:
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karl1976 - 06 Nov 2018 - 20:22
Oggetto:
Thank you. Is this the marriage for Agnes and Franz
karl1976 - 06 Nov 2018 - 22:06
Oggetto:
Or a birth certificate, I cant work it out.
ery1 - 07 Nov 2018 - 20:58
Oggetto:
Sorry, I was wrong with the link.
The correct image is 454 as already told.

Image 454 is the second page of the baptismal act of Agnes Frühstück, legitimate daughter of Franz Frühstück and Agnes Mesnik.

She was born in Saifnitz (House n. 172) on March 2nd, 1884 at 9 AM and baptized on March 4th.
Baptizer: Franz Bergmanz, midwife: Karolina Skoumal.


Image 212 is the first page of the act and you can find it here:
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Regards,
Erica
ery1 - 07 Nov 2018 - 23:30
Oggetto:
Here's the marriage act between Franz Frühstück and Agnes Meschnig, which took place in Saifnitz on October 29th 1882, see image 340:
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Franz Frühstück, resident in house n. 172, masculine son of Anna Frühstück, was born in Udine, of Catholic religion.
He was born on February 4th 1854 (aged 28 and half at the time of his marriage).

And image 523:
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Agnes Meschnig, legitimate daughter of Blasius Meschnig, vulgo Koc resident of Uggowitz, and Magdalena née Jank, all Catholics.
She was born on September 25th 1853 (aged 29 at the time of her marriage).
Witnesses: Josef ? vulgo Jank, house n. 112 in Uggowitz, Josef ? vulgo Mich., house n. 74.


Erica
ery1 - 08 Nov 2018 - 01:00
Oggetto:
Agnes Meschnig was born on September 25th 1853 in Uggowitz, house n. 18.

Father: Blasius Meschnig vulgo Koc, resident of house n. 18, legitimate son of Mathias Meschnigg and Maria neé Errath, of Catholic religion.

Mother: Magdalena neé Jank, legitimate daughter of Joseph ? Jank resident of house n. 112, vulgo Bostian and Ursula neé Schnabel ?, of Catholic religion.

See image 478:
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And image 231:
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Erica
karl1976 - 10 Nov 2018 - 23:40
Oggetto:
WOW. How did you find all this. I am speechless. I
cannot thank you enough.
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