Great grandfather lied about his entire backstory. Found person who might be him. Need help determining.

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lyn1982
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Great grandfather lied about his entire backstory. Found person who might be him. Need help determining.

Messaggio da lyn1982 »

My great grandfather Joseph Abbo/Ebbo (he interchanged between both until the Abbo name stuck) has no documents before his 1918 marriage record and no findable manifest. The earliest info I have on him is from a lawsuit here where he sued his employer: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Re ... frontcover the above states he started working there in 1915. So the earliest record of him could be considered 1915.

I have several documents of him but it was determined over the years by knowledgable/helpful people that much of the info in them was false. I believe his declared birthdate, birth location, parents' names, and the story of him immigrating in 1914 as a 17 year old are all false. Nonetheless these documents can be found here: https://www.rootsfinder.com/tree/70988/ ... -W2P7-C7N2

Reasons why I believe my g grandfather fabricated his backstory are:

-Over the years several people, many of them very skilled/knowledgable have tried to find his birth record or arrival manifest to no avail. Family story is that he changed his surname after arriving to the US and nobody knows what the original surname was.

-His birth is nowhere to be found in the frosinone military archives or birth registers, nor anywhere in Rome city, despite both his wife's nat papers and his SS card AP stating he was born in Alatri, and his obituary stating he was born in Rome.

-His manifest is unfindable. The only one with a close sounding name arriving in Niagara Falls arrived in 1911 and was a few years older than him. I believe this person to be him. More info will be posted further down below.

- He claimed in the lawsuit papers to never have heard from anybody after leaving Italy and not know anything about his family. To me this is suspicious as from other documents he supposedly knows his parent's names.

-All of my Italian DNA matches have some Sicilian. My father's side has Sicilian, but I should show some DNA matches from around Frosinone or Roma if Joseph's story is true and I do not. MY DNA is on all the big sites.

I believe Joseph Abbo was actually born in Palermo, like his wife, Josephine Congelosi. She was born in Cerda and I believe he was born in Brancaccio, Palermo to parent's Pietro Ebbole and Rosalia Bajamonte on 21 APR 1892 and given the name Giuseppe Ebbole.

Reasons why I think this Giuseppe Ebbole is mine:

- My Joseph Abbo lived in Niagara Falls, NY all his life after 1915. Pietro Ebbale appearenly settled in Niagara Falls as well, tho sometime shortly before 1920 he left. Giuseppe Ebbale and his sister Doretha seem to have traveled to and from Italy a few times. This is the last manifest of them. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JJKF-8MJ https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QG5S-46K8 They were nearly deported but it looks like an inquiry was held and they were issued a stay, likely because they had parents in the US.

- This Joseph Ebbale cannot be found in any records after that 1911 manifest. His siblings all have a papertrial, but he does not. The papertrial/info for my Joseph Abbo begins around 1915 and the papertrial for the Joseph Ebbole ends around 1911. This is either an amazing coinsidence or imo they are the same person.

- My Joseph Abbo in the ww1 draft reg I believe is him uses the name Joseph Abol. My Joseph Abbo also used the surname Ebbo in all his early documents. I was not able to determine the ww1 draft was mine for sure as the birthdate differed by month, date and year from his later declared December 23, 1896 birthdate, however the place of employment matched.

- Joseph Ebbale is found in no documents after his 1911 immigration, but all of his siblings are.

Pietro Ebbale lived in the falls in the early 1900s and moved out sometime after Rosalia died in 1914 so there are def ties to Niagara Falls.

It's either a weird coincidence that this Joseph Ebbale disappears after 1911, and my Joseph Abbo has no records before 1915, or they are the same person. All of Joseph Ebbale's siblings have a paper trail, he doesn't.

Also, I did find this marriage record here https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZ9Q-JRJ of a Pietrina Ebbole marrying in Rochester, NY in 1922. Witnesses were a John Congelosi and a Justina Congelosi, I don't know if these Ebbale's relate to the ones in Niagara Falls or not or if these Congelosi's relate to Joseph Abbo's wife any but I thought it was worth mentioning.

My Josephine Congelosi's parents were Guiseppe Congelosi and maria Battaglia. Giuseppe immigrated when Josephine did and I think Maria died in Italy. She had siblings Maria Congelosi born 1885, baltista Congelosi 1888–1960 and Francesco Congelosi 1895–. She may have had more siblings but these are the ones I know of. I know nothing of Franceso. For Maria I know that she married a Rosario Sciarrino . They lived in Niagara. Battista Congelosi married a Josephine Magero. So this Justine and John are likely cousins if at all related or could be siblings I didn't find.

For Josephine's father Guiseppe his parents were Giovanbattista Cancelosi 1830–1865 and Maria La Scala 1827–? He may have had a brother named Domenio born about 1853 as their is one in census in Niagara Falls 1925 census. Oddly enough this Domenio Congelosi also appears to have sons who changed their surname as his sons are listed as having the surname Calato.

I am asking for help with either connecting the two Joseph's, or since that might be impossible, possibly ruling out the Joseph Ebbale as being my Joseph Abbo (not opinions or referrals to websites about name change info please). Finding a record of this Joseph Ebbale existing elsewhere or marrying or dying in Italy would do this and such records not being found I think if nothing else make it likely they are one and the same. As far as connecting the Ebbole's to mine I feel that marriage record with the Congelosi witnesses may be the best chance but there may be something else I have not thought of.

lyn1982
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Re: Great grandfather lied about his entire backstory. Found person who might be him. Need help determining.

Messaggio da lyn1982 »

For some reason I cannot edit my post! I forgot to mention that I also don't have Giuseppe Ebbole's birth/baptism record. I have wondered if perhaps a Maria Paris or Domenico Ebbale might appear as godparents or witness on it as my Joseph Abbo mentions his parents as being Mary Paris and Domenico Ebbo on his marriage licence. The birthdate I got was from an index on antanti but I cannot find the actual record.

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ery1
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Re: Great grandfather lied about his entire backstory. Found person who might be him. Need help determining.

Messaggio da ery1 »

Hi lyn1982 and welcome to this forum!

Leaving aside for the moment what you told about Giuseppe Abbo, I found a birth record for a Giuseppe Abbi born in Rome in 1896, son of unknown parents :

Act n. 483

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

The baby was born on March 19th 1896 in Via Arco dei Banchi 3, Rome.
At that time at that address there were maternity rooms (called Panunzi) for poor women in labour; this institution, which is maintained by the Congregation of Charity, has the purpose of welcoming poor women in labour, assisting them in childbirth and providing for their needs as long as they are in a position to return to their families.

What do you think about that?

You can request further info about Giuseppe Abbi to the Historical Archive of the Foundling Hospital :

https://www.cittametropolitanaroma.it/h ... o-ex-ipai/
Erica

lyn1982
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Re: Great grandfather lied about his entire backstory. Found person who might be him. Need help determining.

Messaggio da lyn1982 »

Thank you for the response.

I've actually seen that record before. But I don't think it's mine. For one I can find no manifest for that Giuseppe and two I show no DNA connections to the area of Roma in spite of being on 4 diff dna sites. (Ancestry, 23andme, myheritage and ftdna).

All the DNA connections I have on Joseph's side seem to be Sicilian, except for one but they still have no ancestry in that area or nearby. Though to be fair I did make a tree going back about 4 gens for this Giuseppe Ebbale and come up with not even one DNA match so I'm not certain if I have a "break" in my tree on his end also or what.

The only DNA matches I have that could possibly be on his line are from Porto Emperdocle, Sicily. I have connections to some families there but the highest is only 43cms so I cannot narrow it down beyond that I'm likely a descendent of Michele Lacono born about 1802 and Raimonda Sorrentino born 1805–1895. But my 43 CM match tho triangulates with half a dozen or more matches with this couple in their tree does not seem to have any connection to them other than they also have ancestry from Porto Emperdocle. This 43cm match has ancestors Raimondo Cumella 1770–1826 and Maria Palillo 1781–1844 which a few other DNA matches of mine have. But I cannot connect the iacono/sorrentino line to them. Some of these matches are only 5th cousins to each other so I know there is not a closer connection.

There's also a few matches that triangulate with these Porto Emperdocle matches with a Rosalino Fasso born 5 FEBRUARY 1886 who lived in Niagara Falls for a while and had children born there with his first wife before moving to NYC, but I cannot find out where he came from in Italy. My 34cm match on ancestry has his parents wrong in the tree I think as the birth year for the one he found in census with parents is 10 years off from all the other censuses. This Rosalino Fasso was naturlized but I couldn't find those papers. My DNA matches come from him and his 2nd wife I think, but since he lived in Niagara Falls at the time my Joseph Abbo lived there I've wondered if they could be cousins but 34cms is a bit low for this match to be a 3rd cousin to me tho it is possible according to DNA painter.

I have enough DNA matches that I know for certain these Porto Emperdocle matches are on my fathers maternal line, so either on Joseph Abbo or his wife Josephine Congelosi's line as none of them match the dozens of 3rd and 4th cousins and (a first and 2nd cousin) on my fathers paternal line nor match on my mothers side. But it is probably impossible to figure out when most of them are only in the 20-30cm range with the highest being 43cms.

Help figuring out these matches or if the Joseph Ebbale could be mine (mayhaps no one in his line tested?) would be much appreciated.

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ery1
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Re: Great grandfather lied about his entire backstory. Found person who might be him. Need help determining.

Messaggio da ery1 »

I'm trying to analyze some data.

Your Giuseppe Abbo seems to be born in Rome in 1896, as written in his obituary, and he declared at marriage to be son of Domenico and Maria Paris.

He made a claim versus Titanium Alloy Manufacturing, because he suffered from pneumoconiosis and silicosis :

https://casetext.com/case/matter-of-abb ... oy-mfg-div


The other Giuseppe Ebboli is probably born in Brancaccio (Palermo) in 1892, son of Pietro and Rosalia Bajamonte.

Giuseppe has certainly two sisters :

Nome: Caterina Ebboli
Data di nascita: 15 mag 1898
Città di nascita: Palermo
Quartiere/Ufficio: Brancaccio
Padre: Pietro Ebboli
Madre: Rosalia Baiamonte
Volume: 385
Numero: 196

Nome: Dorotea Carrara
[Dorotea Ebboli]
Sesso: Female (Donna)
Appartenenza razziale: White (Europoide)
Data di nascita: 5 Dec 1893 (5 dic 1893)
Luogo di nascita: Italy (Italia)
Padre: Pietro Ebboli
Madre: Rosalia Balmonte
SSN: 089521012
Note: 30 Mar 1973: Name listed as DOROTEA CARRARA
Erica

lyn1982
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Re: Great grandfather lied about his entire backstory. Found person who might be him. Need help determining.

Messaggio da lyn1982 »

Thank you for your responce. however, as I mentioned and explained throughoutly in my original post, I believe my great grandfather lied about his backstory and that the other Giuseppe could be him. I would just like some help either ruling this Giuseppe Ebbole out or confirming a connection, via help researching the Congelosi's witnesses in the marriage record or finding records of this Giuseppe Ebbole existing after 1915. I know it is odd that my great grandfather would lie but I am not interested in going over the details of what my research has already proven is false information. I would just like help with ruling in or out this Giusppe Ebbole as being mine.

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